the powerbrokers have manipulated everyone to heavily invest their finances, their time, energy, their relationships, and their own life in the institution. Releasing a letter to a select few was a half measure response. Credibility has been diminished. While Im not one of those men who consistently meets the qualification for eldership, I do know several who do. ++++++++++++++++++++. Lets face it, in this era one can access whatever superior teaching is preferred in the comfort of their home or car. So do you think this is something like Stockholm Syndrome? Recreated vertical version of "Hallelujah" sang by Heather Headley reflecting on the sacrifice of our savior. Gateway is the church that planted Driscolls new The Trinity Church in Scottsdale and they are the ones transferring him cash each year since to keep it afloat and charging that to Global Missions expense. We rejoice in Gods faithfulness to us the first 30 years! self-controlled The first three paragraphs above is what I was hoping to comment on lol. I know exactly what you mean. Of course Im not omniscient, only God knows. You have not taken full responsibility for your actions. Rolling Meadows, Elgin, Crystal Lake, Chicago Cathedral, Harvest en Espaol, Online. Then, Rick Donald, James MacDonald, and Elder Steve Huston worked to suppress them from the rest of the Elders. Since beginning its training center, Harvest Bible Chapel has helped established over 193 church plants across the country and around the world. Can you really fault someone for thinking that maybe they got their ideas on Pastors & elders wrong? Our goals in writing these letters were accomplished, and its unfortunate that people are making them public. Harvest Bible Chapel issued a statement today: Pastor James MacDonald came upon a sleeping bear while walking in the back yard of his modest home today. The 7 elders below were given an opportunity to step down and avoid this lawsuit. I dont think so. Dallas Jenkins, the creator of the most successfully crowdfunded series of all time, "The Chosen," said he's setting the record straight for the last time on the matter of whether he believes Mormons are Christians. They dont want you to have real relationships; the systems designed to prevent them. (baby dont hurt me no more) Maybe JMs associates and enablers thought the most loving thing was to go along with JM for the sake of the everlasting benefits in heaven that would be experienced in the future by the people who were being abused, manipulated, fleeced here under the sun, but who nevertheless were hearing the gospel (as they understood gospel), even though it looks to us like it was being preached from false motives. They existed to serve him as *yes* men and in that respect, they are quite accomplished. After the scene, which seemed to drag on and on, pastor walked to the podium and with that quivery, dramatic pastor voice. Both HBC and WBC had a plurality of Yes-Men Courtiers around a Pastor/Dictator O COME LET US ADORE HIM!. Gods blessings to you. The laity has a huge role in keeping leaders in check, at least theoretically. The posting of it on this website is unfortunate, as are many of the false rumors in the comments both here and on Twitter from anonymous people. It has been a comfort reading here (and at TED, Julie Roys, and other sites revealing the truth) of others who are working through this. Having read the explanations of some of the associates and enablers who have pulled away from HBC, this does seem to have been part of why they put up with the wrongness coming from the top. Our inaugural ministry in the heart of Chicago began on September 20, 2009, with a mobile campus that met for worship on Sunday nights at a school in Wicker Park. Yup, there are plenty of great sources of community *outside* of the church. I have to admit that Philippians 1 often comes to mind as I look at these mega-messes the American church is in. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. It was not just Jmac who was enriching himself. The official anniversary date was September 18, 2018. Peter wrote, Shepherd the flock of God which is among you Paul said, take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers The number of bishops is always plural, but the jurisdiction of these overseers is singular. Plus there are several tombs of El Cid, the lost hero who saved Spain from the Muslim rulers in different cathedrals. And its always dangerous when two fabrics team up. Posted in Theology | Tagged Alpha and Omega, Comparing Myself to Others, Dallas Jenkins, Gavin Stone, God's Sovereignty, God's Will Plan and Priorities, Harvest Bible Chapel, Vertical Church Films | 7 Comments. Why would a quickly growing church choose an unproven young man, father of very young children (along with others similarly unproven, all from our young marrieds class) to be an elder, responsible for overseeing and counseling others? Because MacDonald earned it. Im sure it depends on the setting and the ministry of the church. Ken F (aka Tweed): I only point out that the historical evidence is not what we protestants want it to be. I dont blame the Thompsons. TS00: Agreed. (As well as send a message to any possible Dissidents.) One of my concerns with much of the Reformed world is their higher regard for doctrine and authority over the individual lost and needy soul. Im also going to be annoyed if James McDonald pulls a Mark Driscoll and starts up a new church. Consider the following Scriptures: And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors [POIMEN] and teachers (Ephesians 4:11). You could cold feet and released a scaled-back version instead. Scott G Winterton, Deseret News. of good behaviour Thats not the same as authoritarian of course but there are lots of verses warning against such behaviour and other selfish motives. TX and is setting up his own consulting firm so he can go to thousands of churches setting up secret ways for enriching the head pastors. In case this has escaped your awareness, most folks on TWW have experienced abuse in churches. (just like Adam hearkening to his wife in the garden huh?) dee: You chose to serve in a church with incredibly stupid, unbiblical and mean people in charge. In the history of the church, which is most seductive:money, sex, or power? If after that then the church must seek to cut off the relationship so that the sinner may be held account and that you may reach him towards restoring him. Driscoll was stopped Hybels was stopped MacDonald was stopped. The pastor was grooming me to be an elder, made hints that I could take over for him someday. Some comments lead to some questions. While I dont agree with all PJ says, I will say that I too have concerns whenever free speech is abridged, however well intended the reasons. We all are that person which is why we still need Jesus daily to save us from our continuing sin patterns in our life. Max: Whew! To be brief. Why is the main blogger and moderator so quick to shut down comments. Me too, back when I was in the last Bible Church. WHERE TO FIND US. Amy Moore: There are about 4 dozen Harvest execs & elders moving on to other ministries and the corruption runs so deep theres no chance they wont be infecting every ministry they touch going forward. They arent slated to start until May, and the people who have heard about it are begging him to start it sooner. Something major happened this evening and I will speak about when I can. And this is a relatively new development in protestantism, its just 45-50 years old. ++++++++++++++++++. I would ask that you take some time to think about it. HBC leaders will have to give an account before God for these things. I dont know if its just that I got old enough and wise enough to start seeing it or cynical and hardened as I got older, but after going through the 1980s and 1990s able to find what I thought were decent churches, for over a decade I havent to find a place that isnt abusive, heretical, led by a narcissist or all the the above. Not to say that we may not voluntarily partake of symbols and freely made offerings to God; but never again can any men or institutions demand that we submit to their demands or interpretations of How to be saved. No. Does anyone have examples of big churches that are emblems of integrity? Now if some pastor or group of elders is abusing people, then gloves off. You cant change that. I share this for all who, like me, are overcome with new sadness, pain and loss amidst the HBC, Willow, Catholic church, ECFA, SBC, GFA, etc. All kidding aside, may you, Jessica, Ryan Mahoney, Dee Parsons, any many others who are continuing to fight the good fight be richly blessed. I knew of one really good church in Chapel Hill (Chapel Hill Bible Church) for years ago. Or are we to believe he just held back on refuting all this defamation out of a righteous desire to turn the other cheek? In celebration, we hosted Summer Revival at our Elgin campus. Hmmm it appears that Lauren and Amy are the same person. Heard somewhere; Hell never be a great man.. Which answers your later points. Thompson started questioning MacDonalds spending in 2006, when he saw the pastors home in Inverness featured in Chicago magazine. . These execs like CFO Fred Adams and COO Scott Milholland going into church consulting are the most dangerous. The proof of the Jesuss death and resurrection is what allows us to have faith in the things unseen. If it werent for the subject matter, it would have been rated X (violence) and denounced by Christians as Violence/Torture porn. The potty-mouth preacher from Seattle is still a big draw for macho-men-wannabes and hes found a new audience within Assembly of God ranks. But, I aint Paul, so I suppose I will just have to wait and see how this sorts itself out in eternity. The days of intermediaries are over, and we all have access to the very Spirit of God to lead us personally as he desires us to go. We were in a panic, didnt have enough hands to scramble around and cover all their eyes, which, up to this point, had been quite innocent. Its not like a plurality of elders guarantees anything, or multiple pastors is anything special. Behind him, an ancient city unfurled. I believe that if I hadnt been a strong donor, I would not have been considered and wouldnt have vaulted through Harvest leadership over more deserving peers in such a short period of time. all of this is deeply regrettable. With 17+ degree options, we have something for everyone. The word contains with it a reference to age. Maybe Christianity in all its forms has reached the Tipping Point Where enough believers realize their belief doesnt work for them anymore and Christianity will fade away? A lot of people still hurt. So James has only paid a fraction of taxes that the rest of us little people would have had to without the luxury of the Pastor title and access to over $40M a year in donations. not covetous , Info on the photo is apparently wrong. Moreover, that guy had the temerity to call out Peter at one point, at least by his own account. Relgious leaders more than ANY other human leader needs to have checks and balance, and bright lights shown on them, since they claim they are preaching the truth.. Iowa Steve: Maybe Christianity in all its forms has reached the Tipping Point Where enough believers realize their belief doesnt work for them anymore and Christianity will fade away? If leaders and led live like this, the details of polity scarcely matter. We want proof, not opinion, so we can weed out the arrogance from others who believe they know best and will determine what the rest should think and believe. Just a thought. seeing the beauty of the deposit of God in them. It just completely sets things up for abusive situations. That being said, I would think there is great value in making this public: as a warning for potential future victims of James MacDonald. You will find that many commenters have been on similar journeys, who share stories of pain and disillusionment with their church experiences. Lowlandseer: The NT writers frequently warn that false teachers, wolves, charlatans will enter the church to lead people astray; others are already there and will eventually show their true colours. What I see, I cant un-see; what I know I cant un-know its in my knower! When my friends are all gone. i take no more stock in what paul thinks than i do in what i think. Not. I can hardly stand to read that section in my Bible, much less watch it acted out. Its nice to have a multimillionaire dad. Together, they developed a vision for this church, which grew into the Four PillarsUnapologetic Preaching, Unashamed Adoration, Unceasing Prayer, and Unafraid Witness. Known for its racial and economic diversity, the congregation moved into a converted warehouse in Rolling Meadows, Illinois, in 1995. PJ, with the loss of religious heritage a forgone conclusion, I suspect they will next be raping our children of their identities, if they havent already. Please forgive me. And thats the cold, hard truth. Your church, at which you played a significant role, is a five alarm dumpster fire and there are thousands of actual souls who have been affected by this admitted scandal. If a church tries to appoint elders who dont meet the qualifications for eldershipthe church dies. I read your posts as a searing, agonized, utterly sincere *cri de ceour. We have partnered with Grace Theological Seminary and Chicago Partnership to move onward in equipping leaders to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ. At this point however the narrative cannot be controlled by people because God Almighty is acting now. Chicago is witnessing the implosions of two famous mega churches due to the allegations against their leadership pastors. This disturbing senior pastor made fun of other HBC church leaders for their physical attributes that he deemed not up to snuff with his obvious sartorial sense and unsurpassed personal good looks. When I now go to a church, I want to speak with elders and listen to what they are saying and how they are behaving and whether they are willing to reveal how much the pastor is making. (Not questioning its authenticity, just want to be clear on the context), What MacDonald has done must be documented, not only for the education of his next set of *followers* but for posterity. (Dee). I just found out about it a few minutes ago. Jesus said it is basically impossible that any rich man ever makes it into Gods Kingdom, and you and the others have ignored that. But the manner in which these charlatans lead indicates they dont really know Him they just use Him. If anything, out of all the ashes has come a humbling of my spirit. but again, oodles of people also have personal knowledge of the kingdom of God, through knowing God. Not even fit to be chair of my department at Average State U. Not at all. Makes me sad to think its so. Thats it! You worked for Us. Lowlandseer: Also, we must note who it is that the elders have authority over. Shes gone out of her way to state otherwise. I see several at work in this situation at all levels top to bottom of the organization. maybe a z darn, its just the right word. ex HCA Staff: . Harvest Bible Chapel began meeting the Rolling Meadows High School building. It sounds more like men puffing up their status among the brothers . MacDonalds lavish lifestyle drove Thompson to leave the church. There was no glory or wealth in being a shepherd, once one of the more despised positions due to its lowliness. Churches will line up for this. Thank you John for your honesty and insight into elder selection at HBC. A pastor or shepherd is one who devotes themselves to the care of the flock which is placed under his control. Women's Bible Study. I personally doubt that MacDonald was ever sincere, but it is likely that many of his deceived henchmen were. in the interest of understanding, can you explain what you mean by grace? Also such leaders do have authority (God-given). I think you are correct in noting this early Church writer's statements. CJ Mahaney spread $$$ which brought him years of support from the Calvinista leaders.. And he didnt say crap, at least publicly. In reality, if the undeniable evidence leads to the sad realization that our most beloved parent, spouse, child or pastor is not who we have believed them to be, we must be willing to deal with the facts. Ill follow up with some details later. But as for me, I watch in hope for the LORD, I wait for God my Savior; my God will hear me. Micah 7:5-7, It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in princes. Psalm 118:9, Thus says the Lord: Cursed is the man who trusts in man Jeremiah 17:5. They have acted like they dont believe that with no fear of God but payday is coming someday when they stand before their Creator. . I spent many hours with James MacDonald at church, in his home, at Camp Harvest, and on other retreats. What church does Dallas Jenkins attend? humble. However, a Calvinist fanboy and wannabe celebrity showed up spouting Piper, Driscoll and insisted on hiring a guy from Sovereign Graces mothership-CLC. but ultimately it means people are brainwashed into being acquiescent, passive, accommodating, maintaining their silence. He is my Fortress (part 2) Posted on July 11, 2009 by Jeff Block. It is somewhat inevitable, as their theology asserts that the lost are not so much lost as rejected and doomed by eternal decree from the get go. That said, the bishops, priests, and deacons are supposed to be models of humility and servanthood. It didnt reveal anything new. Someone should also dig into the incident regarding the video of Mel Gibsons Passion of the Christ that was shown to HCA ELEMENTARY school children without any warning or notice to parents. This is something that all Christians in a church community should take to heart. I am now beginning to wonder if it is not simply the beginning of wisdom. It would appear that Jesus last words to them were sort of a rebuke. Indeed, I tremble considering even posting this brief comment for fear of retribution. Why? MacDonald gave Mark Driscoll $50,000? The lawsuit also claims that beginning in 2018, a pastor at one of Harvest's campuses began working with a "disgruntled" former Harvest worker, filmmaker Dallas Jenkins, to solicit letters. The price has been paid, sin and death vanquished, and all may come to the Son for meat and drink with no money and no payment. On a side note, Im wondering if the wealth of knowledge that you and others like Jessica Hockett possesswondering if perhaps the two of you, along with a few other key people, have considered meeting and strategizing what could be some next steps going forward to help ensure that Gods people will never again be fleeced by the likes of James MacDonald, Luke MacDonald, Rick Donald, Jeff Donaldson, and, if it comes down to it, Donald Duck. Dallas Jenkins is the creator, director and co-writer of The Chosen, which in addition to being the first multi-season series about the life of Christ is also the most successful media crowdfund of all time. you mentioned earlier, You dont have to watch a person for very long to discern whether that person is a grace filled believer or not. None of us called Christian should reach the last chapter of life and still be asking What is truth? dont let the mere teachings of men distract you from finding it read the red and pray for revelation! and bring me another beer. Several decades is quite a long time for a good, biblical non-hierarchical to hold on. We praise God as many heard the Good News that weekend. The bit about only a unanimous vote of their executive council being able to remove the lead pastor theres a recipe for success when grievous wolves are not unexpected. Held himself out as a model. So at least in theory there are checks and balances. I LOVED what I believed that Harvest Bible Chapel wasa vibrant church that existed to bring glory to Jesus Christ. fear of the evil, scary worldly world. Dallas Jenkins And The Mormon's Counterfeit Jesus According to Ingrid McCullough: Mr. Jenkins claims that he felt God speaking to him 3-4 times in his life. theres a massive problem with the deference thats given but the level of deference given to pastors is completely unhealthy and all because a book kind of indicates that they need to be heeded. Almost that exact thing happened at the neocalvinist church I attended. I am beginning to feel like at best it is simply not what Jesus intended for us, as it allows to much anonymity, where the church should be a community And at worst it is laced with risks for massive abuse and corruption. And not many have truly repented I think. You have my phone number,. Cut corners in the case of MacDonald, Hybels, Driscoll, and assorted others meant they decided it was OK to be a little wicked if a little good could come from it. No announcement, no warning, just Have something I want you to see. Then suddenly Boom, there it was on the screen. Law Prof: needs to go read the Bible I just think some people do not care one tiny little bit about what the Lord said. TS00: I find it very comforting to know that Jesus entered into a world that was very similar to what we now face: Religion had become a caricature of what God desired, and Jesus gently called people to follow him, rather than fear men. I never thought I would say such a thing about a church plant but, these young reformers are more about planting reformed theology, rather than Gospel churches. If there was the type of church model I had hoped to find it did not appear to make it into the historical records. And while it is no surprise that these so-called churches, which represent one of the most insidious movements in the history of the Christian Church, are ending in self inflicted destruction we can find some comfort that people who were led astray by them can find solace in other groups of believers who I am sure would welcome them with open arms. Id say largely because the leaders themselves have been told to believe this. Why you gotta be so mean? Taylor Swift. They began by gathering in an unused TV studio. This also is so very true! Some things are great for a public airing, where its completely right. Notice how you need to be part of this first hand, and not from a distance like on the world wide web for even unbelievers to see. While the vast majority of pastors and churches can be trusted, disciples who have experienced a betrayal of trust have become sobered by the thought of joining another church. Just Do. Noevangelical: Lowlandseer, Harvest Bible Chapel Jan 2010 - Dec 20178 years Greater Chicago Area Led media team, producing movies, short films, and large-scale videos. In the meantime, I dont rejoice over unworthy vessels carrying the precious Gospel of Christ. Whatever we do as a church family, this is Gods work among us this is His church and His mission, to the glory of Jesus Christ. Sadly, it is not uncommon to find that in time of great loss, the church is not really there for them after all, that in case of health problems that make one unable to serve, they are quickly forgotten, that the great majority of those friendships have a tendency to evaporate or even turn to shunning if put to the test; that it was all a grand illusion, after all the time, effort and loyalty invested. ++++++++++++++++++. Never! Perpetua herself (the presumed writer of most of the Acts) also spends a lot of time talking about prophetic dreams and suchlike. Info on the photo is apparently wrong. Zero current power holders at Willow Creek Community Church have uttered a single word condemning the sexual crimes of founder and 42 year leader Bill Hybels. The beat goes on until Jesus returns. If so, that would be a good thing if we could get back to letting the Main Thing be the main thing. But adding the concept of God to the mix , *God is inhabiting the warm water, so im mystically being helped by it and on my way to becoming a Superhero for God. How does he know that? Here are four things you should know about The Chosen: Photo courtesy: VidAngel. trust God and not your own self. , I would disagree. Study all 66 books of the Bible at Dallas Theological Seminary. Have seen the exact same thing. Run away from any self-conceived leader who does not strive to live this way. . Every church should be safe and reliable. The Bible is clear that all people are God's creation (Colossians 1:16), and that God loves the entire world (John 3:16), but only those who have faith (trust) in the work of Jesus are children of God (John 1:12; 11:52; Romans 8:16; 1 John 3:1-10). I truly believe God provides the grace for elders to walk in the attributes in 1Tim 3but if a church isnt even looking at those thingsbut rather recommends a person onto an elder board because he/she is strategic or a fundraiser or a CEO or a finance person or a large donor (or whatever nonsensical qualification they THINK they need)this is the departure that I think God says no to. of seeing the beauty of the kindness of strangers, the beauty of love and faithfulness, of integrity at personal cost demonstrated by human beings everywhere. I have no idea how RadMan7 is there. Robert Morris sits on the Board of Driscolls new church or at least he did Driscoll no longer lists Board members on his new website. That is one video that I wold love to post. The office of an elder is not to be taken lightly. "I believe (that is) my job in my personal life. It is finished. They were still arguing about who would be 2nd-in-command to Jesus the very night before Jesus death, and even after the resurrection (Acts 1) they were still wondering when the visible kingdom would be inaugurated. I adhere to the never-say-never adage but cant even remotely imagine EVER being involved with a church again. In preparation for the milestone anniversary of 30 years, it seemed fitting to host all our campuses together for Good Friday and Easter Sunday at the Sears Centre Arena. There have been countless decisions made for Christ at Camp Harvest, along with the immeasurable life-transforming impact on countless students, men, women, and families. The terminal stage 4 cancer exists. Nice list. From the earliest days of the institutional church, abuse and murder has been wreaked upon those who dared to believe that they could serve God outside of The Church. Further, a cental message of the Bible, as I learned over many, many years, is that mankind is fallen, and religious leaders/system are fallen, in many ways more fallen than the secular/hunanistic world that so many religous leaders rail against. Once credibility is lost, it is hard to regain. THis man should never be in a position of authority again, and even less in one of spiritual authority (whatever that may mean). These arent hard hurdles for true elders to get throughbut if you ask a church elder to tell you about their elders and it comes back with a set of corporate jargon? Check her Twitter. In April of 2021, following an extensive search and urgent prayer, the Elders of Harvest Bible Chapel announced the new Lead Teaching Pastor to be Dr. Jeff Bucknam. Is preferred in the synagogues and at the street corners, that would be a thing. And wannabe celebrity showed up spouting Piper, Driscoll and insisted on hiring a guy from Sovereign mothership-CLC. 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